Tyros 332 BC

stenfalk
Beiträge: 399
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 15:09
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von stenfalk » Fr 17. Apr 2020, 19:38

Andi hat geschrieben:
Do 16. Apr 2020, 19:35
So much live in this work. So perfectly well done in any way. My deepest respect! What you are doing is simply unique and in it's way a gift and great advance for our hobby. Thanks!
There is no better way to put it into words!
Beste Grüße,

Bild

www.stenfalk.de

Frankzett
Beiträge: 166
Registriert: Mo 4. Sep 2017, 18:10

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Frankzett » Do 23. Apr 2020, 17:17

Very beautifull scenes with the chairman and managing director with his partners ;)

Oh sorry, let me explain, have a look there:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vALeiOzUb5U/ ... 04_013.jpg

Viele Grüße
Frank

Cryns
Beiträge: 737
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 22:16
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Cryns » Do 30. Apr 2020, 17:02

Dear Andi, Egbert, Stenfalk and Frankzett thank you very much for the replies.
Andi hat geschrieben:
Do 16. Apr 2020, 19:35
So much live in this work. So perfectly well done in any way. My deepest respect! What you are doing is simply unique and in it's way a gift and great advance for our hobby. Thanks!
It is an honor for me to read these words from a professional like you, dear Andi!
Egbert hat geschrieben:
Fr 17. Apr 2020, 07:26
In this picture I spontaneously thought of Odysseus and his remained comrades, after the destruction of troja, looking for the way home …
Egbert you are directing us to a major art theme in history here! While it was not my intention to cover the historical period of Illias and Odyssee with my ships and crews, its a very welcome interpretation. :D And yes also a producer of our scale figurines and models suggested to me to present my models as mythological subjects with appealing names and themes for a wide audience.

While the stories of Odysseus/Ulysses go back to the bronze age 2nd milennium BC, probably 1200 or 1100 BC, they were written down 4 centuries later by Homer around 800 BC. But the images we know from antiquity are from 500 BC or later.

The fascinating aspect is that during history, artists depicted Odysseus, his ship and his crew as if they were contemporaries.

Archaic Greek: http://ancientrome.ru/art/artworken/img.htm?id=1388

Classical Greek: https://kottke.org/18/03/translating-in-public

Hellenistic Greek: http://gwenminor.com/wp-content/uploads ... nsvase.jpg

Etruscan: https://www.mediastorehouse.com/heritag ... prodid=676

Roman Imperial: https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_ulr ... otostream/

Late Roman: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news ... /87491.jpg

Late Medieval: http://www.ancientartpodcast.org/blog/w ... lysses.jpg

Renaissance: https://rkd.nl/nl/explore/images/230149

Ships and costumes keep being adapted to the fasion of the age in which the artist lived.

And then of course there are countless baroque, neo classical, romantic, art-noveau and modern interpretations to all of these ancient settings, some of them very beautiful, almost too nice to ignore them. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... Draper.jpg

For us, miniature painters, an art nouveau painting like this could be a wonderful inspiration for color patterns, as long as we don't care too much about historical correctness and archaelogoical evidence: https://www.theepochtimes.com/finding-t ... 32537.html
Frankzett hat geschrieben:
Do 23. Apr 2020, 17:17
the chairman and managing director with his partners
As soon as I have Ekonomikrisis ready, I will attribute a whole post to you Frankzett.

Cryns
Beiträge: 737
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 22:16
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Cryns » Fr 1. Mai 2020, 12:36

Now that I am making rowing boats, I am facing the challenge again of

HOW TO MAKE OARS AND PADDLES THAT DO NOT BREAK AT ONCE?

Steering oars.jpg
Steering oars.jpg (72.52 KiB) 1778 mal betrachtet

The shaft of a paddle or oar should be between 0,8 mm and 1,1 mm thick, otherwise they don't fit the hands of the rowers.
When the rowers are part of a gaming element (like mine) they must be strong because they are long projecting elements of a model that will be moved around all the time, and touching the watersurface at the same time, making the chance of damage even higher.

A resin shaft will break immediately. A shaft like the ones in the picture breaks already when touching it during the painting of the figurine.
A pewter soft metal shaft will bend. After a while none of them will be straight anymore.
A hard plastic shaft like those of the Zvezda galley's is stronger but some of them suddenly snapp off and are difficult to repair.
A soft plastic shaft like those of the Atlantic toy galley's is the strongest but does not stay straight unless it is made too thick.

Here you see some of my original wooden oars and paddles in their rough mould:
oarmold.jpg
oarmold.jpg (338.29 KiB) 1778 mal betrachtet

My solution came from Phersu (I often think of him) and his metal enforcement examples.
But thats a lot of work, every oarcast has to be prepared by hand, one by one. A small boat needs 2 or 4 oars but a galley needs up to 200 of them for one single shipmodel!

But the metal rod enforced resin shaft is the only acceptable material I can think of, exept for full copper or steel oars or bamboo ones.

How to obtain steel rods?
Its difficult to find steel rods of 1mm or less. I visited lots of hardware stores in The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany but what they sell is soft wire or steel rods of 1,5mm or more heavy. 1mm or 0,5 mm ones can be ordered on internet or obtained in a good modelshop for 1 or 2 euro's a piece which makes the metal enforcement more costly than the resin itself that goes into such oar. Metal wire on a roll is cheap but not straight, its a lot of work to straighten it and it is not stiff enough.

A very cheap solution I found in steel brush hair. You can have hundreds of them for only a few euro's. The 0,7mm thickness is perfect.
Here you see one cluster of them next to the mould:
steel rods.jpg
steel rods.jpg (290.77 KiB) 1778 mal betrachtet
The length of those steel brush hairs is limited to about 7cm and still too short for a galley oar. But for the rowing boat oars its perfect. A used brush with rusty hair is even better since the rough surface has more grip on the resin as the smooth greasy new brush hairs.

Always when we build our own mould we face problems we could not think of beforehand.
When the mould is positioned straight up to enable pouring the resin inside it, the rods sink down in the pouring canals at the bottom or between both halves of the mould. To prevent that I started to make footstands for each rod, looking like projecting bulbs visable at the bottom end of each rod in the mould. In the picture below its the small blue lines.
pour and vent canals.jpg
pour and vent canals.jpg (408.63 KiB) 1778 mal betrachtet
The tiny supplychanels that go from the bottom canal upwards to the oars must come sideways to the shaftbottoms and not from straight under anymore, like I used to do. To improve the supply stream I cut two chanels for each oar.

Another problem that occures is the thickness of the steel rod (0,7mm) compared to the wideness of the mouldshaft (1mm) giving the resin only 0,3 mm space to stream upwards.

Well... it doesn't! :(
At least not all the way to the oarblades. :cry:

For that reason I had to prolongue the vertically main supplychannel from A to B so the gravity of the resin at B is pushing the resin in the oarshafts upwards.
To save a double amount of moulding silicone, I use a plastic tube for that.
I keep pouring new resin until out of all the ventilation canals at the top of all 9 oars and paddles streams bubble-free resin.
That way I loose a lot of costly resin, driving up the product price again, and its becoming a poisonous mess around the mould.
oars.jpg
oars.jpg (97.38 KiB) 1778 mal betrachtet

Now of course I hope to hear it if any one of you has a better, simpler or cheaper solution. Please let me know!

dirk
Beiträge: 680
Registriert: Do 11. Dez 2014, 12:26
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von dirk » Fr 1. Mai 2020, 19:44

The paddles look great...


...but I don´t have a better solution for you.

3D-Printing ?

Wolfgang
Administrator
Beiträge: 1772
Registriert: Do 16. Jan 2014, 22:57
Wohnort: Eschweiler

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Wolfgang » Fr 1. Mai 2020, 20:31

Welch ein Aufwand! Ich habe größten Respekt vor deiner Arbeit!!!
Liebe Grüße, Wolle

Bild

CHRIS DODSON
Beiträge: 446
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 13:39

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von CHRIS DODSON » Sa 2. Mai 2020, 10:39

Hello Mr C!

Just a thought.

Would it perhaps be easier to model the blade and poles separately ?

You could perhaps have a little wire extending from the pole that could ‘mate’ with a hole in the blade section so when glued it made a stronger bond than just butt jointing.

Der Feldmarschall thought that a mortise joint would be stronger but that would entail more engineering.

Best wishes,

Chris

Egbert
Beiträge: 591
Registriert: Do 18. Jun 2015, 06:39

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Egbert » Sa 2. Mai 2020, 11:34

Thank you very much Mr. Cryns
for the detailed description of the manufacture of the paddles.
My greatest respect for your extraordinarily filigree work. :oops:
LG Egbert
Bild

Cryns
Beiträge: 737
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 22:16
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Cryns » Mo 4. Mai 2020, 17:57

Thank you all for your feedback, I appreciate it very much!!!
dirk hat geschrieben:
Fr 1. Mai 2020, 19:44
3D-Printing ?
You are right! I completely forgot about that. I feel like one of the 'Old School Guys' here at the forum (like our Präsident Patrick :mrgreen: ) who don't feel comfortable with those modern computer techniques. Well Patrick, I am a bit like you. But I should really try this indeed. Its worth trying. I do not have such a 3D printer but one member of our gaming group has. I don't know if the result is cheaper but at least the 3D print plastics I have tested and touched were much stronger than any type of resin.
CHRIS DODSON hat geschrieben:
Sa 2. Mai 2020, 10:39
blade and poles separately
Thanks, an interesting idea. But casting 2 separate parts is always more work. Not only for casting, also for assorting, packing etc.
Now I am selling stuff myself, I realized there is a big disadvantage of producing figurines with separate arms or ships with countless parts: it is an incredible lot of work to have enough of each item in stock and make sure the right quantities end up in a bag for sales purpose.
CHRIS DODSON hat geschrieben:
Sa 2. Mai 2020, 10:39
a hole in the blade
Something else I learned the last two years about casting: it is almost impossible to have holes cast that have the right diameter and depth.
So this means a user or customer has to drill the hole himself again, no matter if its 2mm deep or 10mm. It almost never turnes out well. Not in my homemade casts and not from the experienced forgery.
CHRIS DODSON hat geschrieben:
Sa 2. Mai 2020, 10:39
a mortise joint would be stronger
I love your Feldmarshall very much (tell her that!) and theoretically she is right! But I wonder if she knows what scale I try to work in.

But, thanks to your suggestions, I will think of a way to use metal poles that fit a resin blade, with a round or square tip, I have to try it before I can judge. Especially for the long oars of penteconters and biremes its worth trying it.

Cryns
Beiträge: 737
Registriert: Do 10. Aug 2017, 22:16
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tyros 332 BC

Beitrag von Cryns » So 10. Mai 2020, 11:58

MAKING SAILS AND THEIR MOULDS ALL OVER AGAIN

To cast resin sails more effective I had to make my two small sail masters and moulds from 2017 all over again :|
The old ones from 2017 were extremely thin, making the chance for miscasts 75%.
A professional forger doesn't even want to try moulding my 1 mm thin sails.

The old sails were made of a single textile sheet:
old sail shaping.jpg
old sail shaping.jpg (288.16 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet
old sail stiffened.jpg
old sail stiffened.jpg (173.66 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet

Its so thin all kinds of holes appear in the resin copy:
old sail in mold.jpg
old sail in mold.jpg (248.28 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet

There are ways to give the sails more volume by laying pieces of hardened resin between the moulds before closing and pouring them with liquid resin. But.....

...after some years my cheap silicone moulds shrunk, break apart or lose shape, making them useless.
Also the rings to guide the brail-lines were much too heavy, made of glass rings (beads):

old sail rings.jpg
old sail rings.jpg (280.53 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet

Finally the old sails had their textiles glued directly to the yard.
I thought this to be necessary for strength and enabling the casting:

old sail cast.jpeg
old sail cast.jpeg (52.06 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet

I wanted to try if its possible to cast sails with space between wooden yard and canvas sail. And to my surprise, it is possible:

half full sail.jpeg
half full sail.jpeg (148.49 KiB) 1572 mal betrachtet

Antworten